A bit gutless.

I am guilty myself for thinking as such in my early days, but boy was I wrong.

It can get loud, but amazing power is hiding behind it. I suppose this is my trademark statement, but here it is anyways. I have passed about 500 cars for every one that passed me in last 2.5years and 46K miles. I am not weaving in and out of traffic, just going +10-15 when it opens up in front. I believe I was the fastest one at that point in time when I was going uphill on Vail Pass fully loaded.

P.s. It looks like you missed the center console abyss and brake transition slip. Based on how serious you are taking your next purchase, I would not be surprised if those give you a serious pause.

Good luck!

 

Yes we weren't sure - one person did a drag with an Odyssey with an AWD and won. Seems like someone with a FWD lost. Heard that sport mode with AWD can be quite spirited. So I guess it depends?

What is this about brake transition slip? I did watch a review that said there was some brake weirdness when it changed from regen braking to disc braking, but heard that it was much improved in the following year, and 2023 has a very good brake experience? Is there a thread on this.

The center console abyss - I hadn't thought about that. We noticed it was pretty deep but weren't concerned. Maybe we should be.

Thanks for the response by the way!

 

Yw.

Here are a couple of threads but there are many others on these topics.

Sudden Regenerative Braking "Lurch Forward" Issue?

Hi all, The regenerative braking on my 2021 XLE was something that was always not perfectly smooth but something I had gotten used to. I felt it actually improved what I called the "struggle a bit after complete stop" smoothness after the last software update last fall after oil service. A...

www.siennachat.com

Center console door issue

something stocked in the side of center console door. So, I cannot open in completely. Is there any person how to fix it? It seems that I have to take out the door to check the side part. Thank you

www.siennachat.com

 

So we're considering a new Sienna. We have made a list of our personal pros and cons. We've been reading a bit and lurking, but this is my first post.

We're interested if anyone has comments, mockery, solutions, or experience that can help us put them into perspective! Any insight is really appreciated.

Pros:

• Toyota reliability
• Great gas mileage
• Available with all-wheel drive
• 4-zone climate control
• Smaller map lights – less distracting to driver when front passenger turns on (this annoys us about our 2017 Avalon)
• Kick to open for side AND back doors that works for kids too
• 1500 W 120V outlet (competitors with V6 have 120V, but only in front seat (Odyssey) or only 150 W or so)
• 4 cupholders means we can use one for a phone holder and other stuff
• Really like the design of the bridge deck and the shelf space in front seat
• Storage compartment under bridge deck
• 90 degree touch screen has less glare compared to Odyssey angled screen, larger too by 1"
• Very comfortable 2nd row seats
• Super slide feature for 2nd row
• Ottomans and potentially heated 2nd row
• Button to easily open the side doors for kids and kick to open works for kids. Odyssey has no good opening options for young kids.
• Nice big grab handles that go low to help kids getting into the back

Cons:

• Terrible headrests in front seats that push head forward (from sitting in it ourselves)
• Front row seats have weak thigh support (from trying ourselves)
• Front armrests have kind of thin padding
• Armrests are stupidly thin in 2nd row (from trying ourselves) - but this is the same for all
• Spare tire shenanigans - we understand but don't like it - in allocation model waiting for one to come in with a spare tire could take a very long time
• Black ceiling is only option - we prefer light ceiling (Odyssey has this)
• No sunglass holder,
• No cabin watch and really small conversation mirror
• Wheels are actually plastic clad steel, not true alloy (why did they do this?)
• Noisy motor/CVT and a bit gutless
• Can’t remove 2nd row seats (not a big deal to us)
• Crappy backup camera – fixed lines – 360 camera also has bad resolution - apparently general camera supply chain issues mean might not get hirez cameras even on high trim levels?
• Potential tire eating issues? - But these seemed to be previous generation more, before hybrid so maybe not an issue

i’ve had mine for 4 months now, and really like the vehicle. My only issues is I wish they hadn't changed the space behind the third row seat. The 25 inch run on the second row seat is nice, but I use it very little. The smaller space behind the third row seat limits the amount of luggage that I can put in there much more so than my 2020 sienna or my 2018 Odyssey that I had. I would rather they had shortened the second row slide and kept the third row the same size(it is definitely not as wide) and the space behind it the same size. It limits the amount of luggage that I can put back there much more so than my 2020 sienna or my 2018 Odyssey that I had. The lane keep assist is nice, but tends to lose the road lines sometimes even when they are well marked. Also tends to lose them on curves. The one in my odyssey and CRV seem to track better, but I do like having the feature. Most of the time, it does capture the lines and helps assist with the steering. you have to watch though that it does not lose contact with the road for obvious reasons. as far as power goes, I have no complaints. It does get noisy if you accelerate hard, but it does accelerate, and it holds speed on the highway without any difficulty at all. Gas mileage is fantastic, especially when traveling on long straight roads. Definitely an upgrade from my 2020 sienna. overall, I’m definitely glad that I switched to the 2023. The only thing I’m waiting on now is because of a shortage of key fobs, I only received one with the vehicle, and supposedly will be getting the second one sent to me. It’s been four months, I spoke with them yesterday, and they said that it should be coming in the next month or two.

 

The only thing I’m waiting on now is because of a shortage of key fobs, I only received one with the vehicle, and supposedly will be getting the second one sent to me. It’s been four months, I spoke with them yesterday, and they said that it should be coming in the next month or two.

See this thread (Post #2): 2nd key fob
You will receive communication on the fob from Toyota. Then you will probably need an appointment at the dealer where they will program a fob for you. The supply time is based on the production date on the label in the driver door jamb. If your van was produced in April, you are scheduled for Q4 for the notification. If it was produced in May, then you are looking at Q1 2024 for the notification.

 

See this thread (Post #2): 2nd key fob
You will receive communication on the fob from Toyota. Then you will probably need an appointment at the dealer where they will program a fob for you. The supply time is based on the production date on the label in the driver door jamb. If your van was produced in April, you are scheduled for Q4 for the notification. If it was produced in May, then you are looking at Q1 2024 for the notification.

Fascinating, I hadn't heard anything about this. I love forums, invest a little time and they are so much better than Googling...

 

I dunno - I think it really comes down to: do I want/need a 35 mpg hybrid minivan. If yes, buy Sienna. If no, you have tons of other options, which have pros vs the Sienna. We wanted AWD and 35 mpg and all that cargo space, so here we are.

 

Yes, I really want those things too (mileage/AWD/space). The Sienna is almost 2" more clearance than Odyssey also. We don't go offroading by any means, but we do like to explore dirt roads that sometimes have some unevenness and I liked the idea of having a little more confidence in taking gravel/dirt roads a little off the beaten path, residing in Utah and loving to explore a little more in the remote areas - there are many graded dirt roads that are not bad, but can sometimes have small challenges for lower clearance vehicles like sedans.

At the same time SUV (we test drove and looked at a Highlander) is hard for the kids to get in and out, stiffer ride, and less cargo space, so we don't want to go all out SUV. Sienna AWD seemed like a nice compromise. Ride quality/seats for us in front is most important though (I have a separate thread on that) so I'm hoping the Platinum we have coming in is better than the Woodland edition we sat in (though we didn't get to test drive it) regarding seat comfort.

 

My production date was December 2022 (January ’23 delivery). To date (9/15/23), I have yet received any notice of the 2nd key fob.

 

Are people getting two FOBs with their recent deliveries, or has nobody in 2023 been getting their 2nd FOB? Sure comes in handy if you have memory seats to just have it adjust based on the FOB that opened the vehicle. I mean it isn't a "chore" by any means to press the memory button, but when you pay what you pay, you want every convenience you paid for!

 

The second row seats have air bags to protect rear passengers. This can be a pro or con.
This is pro if you are concerned about rear passengers. This is con if you don't care about rear passengers and just want to drive with second row seats removed.
If you really, really want to remove second row seats, there is air bag simulator you connect, and then remove the second seats.

 

Yes we weren't sure - one person did a drag with an Odyssey with an AWD and won. Seems like someone with a FWD lost. Heard that sport mode with AWD can be quite spirited. So I guess it depends?

What is this about brake transition slip? I did watch a review that said there was some brake weirdness when it changed from regen braking to disc braking, but heard that it was much improved in the following year, and 2023 has a very good brake experience? Is there a thread on this.

The center console abyss - I hadn't thought about that. We noticed it was pretty deep but weren't concerned. Maybe we should be.

Thanks for the response by the way!

sienna won.

 

This might not be helpful, but I find that on I really get used to anything after time. The things you've listed will likely become insignificant once your brain adjusts to the Gen 4. And the improved fuel economy will be a real benefit.

 

A quick list of pros and cons from this 2021 LE+ AWD owner (28 months, 76K miles):

PROS

1. Mind-bending fuel economy; quite easy to exceed the EPA rating - if you drive it conservatively, that is. Fuelly reports 32 mpg for 2021 and 33 mpg for 2022 and 2023.
2. Ultra-long range because of #1 and the 18-gal fuel tank (can count on 600 "good weather" miles)
3. Adequate power for all the driving situations we have been in (Appalachian mountain roads, 8 people on board, overtaking, etc. Disclaimer: we haven't done Vail Pass or the Grapevine )
4. Very comfortable, I'd say "cushy" ride
5. A good ground clearance for a minivan
6. No first hand experience with FWD, but the e-AWD version is very competent in acceleration, cornering, regen-assisted braking, driving in slippery conditions.
7. Insignificant mpg penalty for e-AWD
8. Comfy seats (note: many owners of higher trims complain about the seats, notably the headrests)
9. Very well equipped for the 2nd lowest trim: power sliding doors, moonroof, multizone HVAC
10. If you can't get a version with spare wheel soon/cheap enough, a simple aftermarket mod ($600-$800 for parts including the spare wheel and an hour or two if DIY-ing with no special tools needed) will take care of it
11. Our stock wheels (2nd lowest trim) look great, Falken-something Ziex, grip very well and will last for >55K miles. Note: some higher trim owners dislike their wheels
12. Too numerous to count cubbies, pockets, beverage holders etc. everywhere in the van. There is a very long shelf under the dashboard, and a basement under the bridge at the central console. That basement alone holds a 1-gallon trash can, a fire extinguisher, a roll of paper towels, a container of wipes, etc. Behind the infotainment screen there is enough space to put a large aftermarket storage bin, where I keep my safety-, sun- and other glasses

At 75K miles it's too early to talk about long-term reliability or longevity. Touch wood, I haven't had any serious problems that would affect drivability or safety, and smaller problems were fixed under warranty.

CONS

1. The tailgate (ours is not powered) sometimes needs to get whacked down really hard, otherwise it might look like its closed and flush with the body, but it isn't, which means the car will throw a Tailgate Open alarm
2. The 2nd row is awkward, as you can't [easily] remove it, or fold, or even tilt it enough for transporting long (> 73") items on the floor.
3. No auxiliary audio input and of course no CD player.
4. The central console cover can swallow small and not so small items. Mine never has, but some drivers had their credit cards and keys eaten. This can be fixed, though, with some DYI effort.
5. Sometimes when the van transitions from regen to friction braking at low speeds it may feel for a fraction of a second as though the brake or the wheels "slipped". Many people find it disconcerting, although I have not read reports about this causing problems with stopping in time.
6. Specific to Blueprint color: is only pretty under certain range of light conditions.

CONTROVERSIAL/SUBJECTIVE CONS

1. Under sustained acceleration or climbing up a steep grade the engine emits a droning noise. I am not bothered, but I can see why some drivers will resent it
2. Courtesy of the e-CVT, the acceleration feels kind of rubbery, which some drivers may confuse with the lack of engine power
3. The 3rd row, when folded into its well, doesn't latch in its position and might "pop up", some drivers reported. A bungie cord or a floor mat will fix it.
4. Some drivers reported the butt sags too much when the van is loaded with people, stuff, multi-bike rack etc. I haven't seen it on my van with 7-8 people inside.

 

Pretty much spot-on with my experience. We are in month 4 of ownership of our '21 LE FWD. A lot of long highway trips this summer, so mileage has averaged ~33 mpg.

Loves/Pros:

1. Very comfy for a large family-I'm 6'4", 235# (former college tight end). I wish the thigh support was a bit longer but it's quite comfy with good room to spread my legs and elbows out. My 4 kiddos, ages 8-15 yo all find it very comfy.
2. Actually prefer the LE cloth seats vs synthetic-We've rented XLEs with the synthetic leather and our second vehicle is a '22 Subaru Ascent Onyx with the Startex seats. Summers are hot in NorCal and I get serious 'swamp butt' on long drives with the synthetic seats, so I'm really appreciating my first cloth seats in many, many years.
3. Acceleration is more than adequate, even pulling into fast traffic with 6 large humans and luggage.

Hates/Cons:

1. The engine is almost embarrassingly loud on acceleration once the gas engine kicks in.
2. Windshield noise, particularly on the driver's side is for real and incredibly annoying and unacceptable for a manufacturer of Toyota's reputation. Apparently, nothing can be done.
3. The second row is very difficult to slide forward to allow 3rd row access. This is our carpool vehicle and even the 15-16 yo teens are having problems.
4. I knew it going in but the lack of a power tailgate, even at the LE level is ridiculous.
5. Front display and back up camera are both comically bad/out of date, as is the speaker quality. My Subaru, which is just above their lowest Premium trim, has a display, speakers and back up camera that blow the doors off the Sienna.
6. More expensive to insure vs a 1 year newer Ascent. I've been with USAA for 20+ years, zero tickets or accidents. It's about $130 more over 6 months. Certainly not a deal breaker but a bit surprising.

To be honest, I like it but I don't love it. I think it's the best option for a van available at the moment but not sure I'll keep it long term.

 

1. The tailgate (ours is not powered) sometimes needs to get whacked down really hard, otherwise it might look like its closed and flush with the body, but it isn't, which means the car will throw a Tailgate Open alarm

lol, at least im not the only one who feels like they have to slam the gate down to get it to close. I had a body shop adjust the latch, the stops, and even tweaked my door back straight(yes, right from the factory, the tailgate was bent, tis a very thin aluminum frame with a plastic skin). it still needs to be slammed shut to get it to close and not trigger the door alarm.

 

Try leaving a widow or door open elsewhere on the van while closing the tailgate. We had that problem with a difficult to close tailgate when both our 2004 and our 2011 Siennas were new. It turned out that part of the problem was that we were just building up air pressure inside as we swung the tailgate closed. I'm not saying that this is a permanent solution, just that it was something we noticed. Another thing that helped: don't swing the tailgate closed quickly all in one swoop. It can feel like you really need to in order to get it to close, but this just makes the problem worse. Bring the tailgate down to within a few inches of closed, then give it a solid push from there.

Another thing that made a difference: as the van gets older, it seems to get easier to get the tailgate to latch. I suspect this is because of two related issues: the seals around the windows and doors and other areas are not so tight, so some of the pressure gets relieved, and the seal around the tailgate gets compressed over time, providing less resistance to that last little bit of motion until it latches.

 

Bought mines in July /23 and without 2nd key fob. Love the van and not the price I paid but needed it since my main family hauler (2007 CX9 w/ 275k started having tranny issues). It was 42k + 5k in factory installed packages along with 5k in dealer packages for an XLE = 52k. I guess I could of waited and or looked around but have a family vacation that came up a week later so I was a bit desperate.

pros - great gas mileage at 38 mpg after 4k of driving. I drive in ‘eco’ mode even with AC on in great weather (southern california). No issues going up and down the Grapevine multiple times. Very roomy and huge back trunk. Middle seats slides for much leg room fore or aft.
Cons - no spare tire. I had to buy one from Modern Spare. No sunglasses holder. I can’t roll down/up the window right after I turn off the car. Could do this in my old 07 CX9. Rear seats don’t stowe flat as I would like.
Lame monitoring not as good as our 22 Corolla with same Toyota safety sense for some reason (it can’t track lines as well).

 

just curious.. " 5k in dealer packages" what was the package?

 

The biggest con is the wind noise on highway speeds it’s outright terrible. I have the xse and 2 months and 3k miles it’s great for city stop and go traffic but on highway it’s probably one of the worst car I have been in.

Yes many pros like MPG , Awd etc I got the spare also, installing a rhino platform for roof tent etc.

 

Try a 3rd generation sienna is you think the 4th generation has wind noise.

 

Pretty much spot-on with my experience. We are in month 4 of ownership of our '21 LE FWD. A lot of long highway trips this summer, so mileage has averaged ~33 mpg.

Loves/Pros:

1. Very comfy for a large family-I'm 6'4", 235# (former college tight end). I wish the thigh support was a bit longer but it's quite comfy with good room to spread my legs and elbows out. My 4 kiddos, ages 8-15 yo all find it very comfy.
2. Actually prefer the LE cloth seats vs synthetic-We've rented XLEs with the synthetic leather and our second vehicle is a '22 Subaru Ascent Onyx with the Startex seats. Summers are hot in NorCal and I get serious 'swamp butt' on long drives with the synthetic seats, so I'm really appreciating my first cloth seats in many, many years.
3. Acceleration is more than adequate, even pulling into fast traffic with 6 large humans and luggage.

Hates/Cons:

1. The engine is almost embarrassingly loud on acceleration once the gas engine kicks in.
2. Windshield noise, particularly on the driver's side is for real and incredibly annoying and unacceptable for a manufacturer of Toyota's reputation. Apparently, nothing can be done.
3. The second row is very difficult to slide forward to allow 3rd row access. This is our carpool vehicle and even the 15-16 yo teens are having problems.
4. I knew it going in but the lack of a power tailgate, even at the LE level is ridiculous.
5. Front display and back up camera are both comically bad/out of date, as is the speaker quality. My Subaru, which is just above their lowest Premium trim, has a display, speakers and back up camera that blow the doors off the Sienna.
6. More expensive to insure vs a 1 year newer Ascent. I've been with USAA for 20+ years, zero tickets or accidents. It's about $130 more over 6 months. Certainly not a deal breaker but a bit surprising.

To be honest, I like it but I don't love it. I think it's the best option for a van available at the moment but not sure I'll keep it long term.

I am a tad shorter (6'2" and 225 lbs.), but I do have long legs and so far I haven't noticed the lack of thigh support .... I guess everyone's anatomy is a little different. I would mention that my driver's seat is set at the highest position, maybe that's the trick?

I also wonder if the hard-to-slide 2nd row may is a bug and not a feature. I recall that for sliding the left-hand chair I had to pull the square handle really hard, so hard that I ended up needing a new actuator cable. Perhaps something to raise with the dealership if the car is still on warranty?

 

It seems upper trim levels like limited and platinum don’t have as many wind noise issues as lower trim levels like XSE and below do

 

I honestly didn’t care what trim I got since these are impossible to get ..it was msrp and had no cloth seats. I traded in my 200k rx350 which I had for a while. I have driven my friend 3rd gen le and it’s not as loud as mine. Also this car regardless of the trim has the thinnest rubber gaskets around the door trims. Also the trim around the windshield outside is not that heavy duty compared to my LX570. It’s very lose you guys can try to move and it will come
Out easy. Thinking of puttting silicone all around the front windshield.

I also put weathertech window visors all around didn’t help much
The platinum has acoustic glass on windshield and front 2 windows.

Plan is to pick a new platinum when they refresh this.

 

Compared to the competition

pros:
Easy 30+ mpg. My lead foot has lost some weight and my new normal is now 36+, up from 32.
Easy cheap maintenance. I am so glad they went back to spin on oil filter that’s easily accessible.
Tows it’s marketed weight very well. And at insane mpg. My latest trip flat towing the drift car saw 24mpg(!!!)
Toyota. Those other brands not names toyota/honda have some questionable concerns from user’s posting on their owner forums.

Cons:
Second row doesn’t come out without tools. But it was an easy 4minute affair tbh.
Toyota safety chimes for everything.
Could use more usbc?
Replacement tires were a bit if a pain, but that may have been due to covid shipping issues when it happened.
Loss of rear trunk kick door action with tow hitch.
Glorified hub caps? Idno i kinda like them though.
spare tireshenanigans

My cons have gotten nit picky over the years. But they’re all easy to live with with how good the van is. Especially the mpgs and towing part. What else outside of diesel is doing 20mpg towing 2800lbs lol.

 

Anyone know how or when we will get a second key?

See the chart in post #2 here: 2nd key fob
What will happen is you will get a notification from Toyota. At that time, make an appointment with the dealer and the dealer will supply (and program) the second key fob.

 

6. More expensive to insure vs a 1 year newer Ascent. I've been with USAA for 20+ years, zero tickets or accidents. It's about $130 more over 6 months. Certainly not a deal breaker but a bit surprising.

That's because the Sienna has very high medical injury claims relative to the average car, something like 45% higher.

 

Is that common to minivans in general? More passengers = more medical claim individuals per accident thus higher numbers? Or the people in the back just bounce around like pinballs and get more hurt? Or minivan drivers aren't paying attention because the kids are making too much noise ?

 

Is that common to minivans in general? More passengers = more medical claim individuals per accident thus higher numbers? Or the people in the back just bounce around like pinballs and get more hurt? Or minivan drivers aren't paying attention because the kids are making too much noise ?

I have noticed that in my driving area a significant proportion of new Siennas tends to speed. This could be because folks choose the Gen 4 over other new minivans for its anticipated high reliability and low TCO (#Gigaprius), and then they discover that the van has pretty good driving dynamics for its size and weight.

 

Guilty as charged .

 

Only had our ‘23 AWD Plantinum for 2 weeks but have a couple impressions in comparison to our 2019 Odyssey Elite. We previously owned a 2014 Sienna XLE, so definitely had Sienna experience. In addition, our last Spring Break we drove a new Sienna XLE all around Arizona/Grand Canyon area for a week and loved it.

• Styling and fit/finish I preferred the Odyssey.
• Multifunction screen quality is not as sharp as the 2019 Odyssey. On CarPlay it is noticeable and I was also surprised it did not seem like they updated the Nav interface from when we had our 2014!
• Backup camera quality is poor in standard view although I like that there are the surround options, the front camera helps and I like the rear view mirror camera.
• Engine is noisier than the Odyssey, or at least it doesn’t sound as smooth.
• Heated steering wheel is only on the sides and not all the way around as on our Odyssey (this is a big deal to my wife for the winter!)

 

’19 & ’20 are Gen 3, ‘21 is Gen 4. Gen 3 didn’t so well in IIHS crash testing which Gen 4 mostly addressed. It’s hard to make head or tail of two different designs being lumped together.

The offset rear passenger crash tests are for a 12 year old sized dummy, 8 passenger configuration with the seat belts on the pillars. The part the Sienna did poorly was dummy kinematics, despite Toyota being the only minivan with belt pretensioners and force limiters. I would guess this is due to the crash test being offset so the dummy moves forwards at an angle. They did not test the 7 passenger with seat belts in the seat frame, I wonder if it would fare better due to the shorter belt length.

If you’re just worried about life or death, Gen 3 Sienna fortunately had low driver deaths rates. This is the category where high performance versions of a car often have a higher fatality rate than the lower performance ones so the driver makes a big difference. For example, the Tesla Model 3 AWD fatality rate is about triple that of Tesla Model 3 RWD.

 

It’s surprisingly easy to speed up on highways seeped the hybrid truly works great. The brakes can be little better also the handling / turns isn’t that great either.

I only have very little experience with minivans; before this Sienna I drove a Windstar on a few occasions in the early 2000's.

Comparing to the two RWD F-150's and one FWD Explorer I have had the Gen 4 Sienna handles exactly how a heavy vehicle with a long wheelbase and "plush" suspension would. in fact, I find it great at high speed cornering, but this may be because mine is e-AWD .... and/or because I obey the speed limits . I haven't noticed any problems with braking ether, apart from the occasional low-speed "lurch" when the computer hesitates for a fraction of a second between regen and friction braking.

 

I concur with what you are saying. Best regards an Thank you!

So we're considering a new Sienna. We have made a list of our personal pros and cons. We've been reading a bit and lurking, but this is my first post.

We're interested if anyone has comments, mockery, solutions, or experience that can help us put them into perspective! Any insight is really appreciated.

Pros:

• Toyota reliability
• Great gas mileage
• Available with all-wheel drive
• 4-zone climate control
• Smaller map lights – less distracting to driver when front passenger turns on (this annoys us about our 2017 Avalon)
• Kick to open for side AND back doors that works for kids too
• 1500 W 120V outlet (competitors with V6 have 120V, but only in front seat (Odyssey) or only 150 W or so)
• 4 cupholders means we can use one for a phone holder and other stuff
• Really like the design of the bridge deck and the shelf space in front seat
• Storage compartment under bridge deck
• 90 degree touch screen has less glare compared to Odyssey angled screen, larger too by 1"
• Very comfortable 2nd row seats
• Super slide feature for 2nd row
• Ottomans and potentially heated 2nd row
• Button to easily open the side doors for kids and kick to open works for kids. Odyssey has no good opening options for young kids.
• Nice big grab handles that go low to help kids getting into the back

Cons:

• Terrible headrests in front seats that push head forward (from sitting in it ourselves)
• Front row seats have weak thigh support (from trying ourselves)
• Front armrests have kind of thin padding
• Armrests are stupidly thin in 2nd row (from trying ourselves) - but this is the same for all
• Spare tire shenanigans - we understand but don't like it - in allocation model waiting for one to come in with a spare tire could take a very long time
• Black ceiling is only option - we prefer light ceiling (Odyssey has this)
• No sunglass holder,
• No cabin watch and really small conversation mirror
• Wheels are actually plastic clad steel, not true alloy (why did they do this?)
• Noisy motor/CVT and a bit gutless
• Can’t remove 2nd row seats (not a big deal to us)
• Crappy backup camera – fixed lines – 360 camera also has bad resolution - apparently general camera supply chain issues mean might not get hirez cameras even on high trim levels?
• Potential tire eating issues? - But these seemed to be previous generation more, before hybrid so maybe not an issue

2023.0829 We ordered (08/19/2023) the 2023 Platinum AWD and overpaid by $4500 because we wanted a vehicle ASAP ( Received on 08/29/2023 in North Hollywood, CA.) I HATE that we overpaid, because we were signed up since March 4, 2023 and had put a $500 deposit down at Longo (MSRP price and no mark up!!!). Longo just called me on 10/12/2023 to let me know that they had a platinum available FWD (no Entertainment package). Me and my wife each drive our own vehicles and I was involved in a crash (total loss of my 2005 Lexus ES with 224,353 miles) a few days before we ordered the minivan.We were not seeking the AWD, but it has been nice. Last year it actually rained in SoCal, and we are in for another possible for another El Nino this year.


Pro's
Happy wife- (It is her daily driver an hour each way in LA traffic.)
Gas mileage=32.5 average on first 3 fill ups (we took a long trip to San Diego.
Long range +big gas tank.
Heated -reclinable ottomans for the two kids= 4 and 7.
AWD- feels secure and well balanced for a Minivan.
Rims are nice-but way... too expensive. See below.
Dynamic Range cruise control is the best that I have used.
Entertaiment is nice and it was a bit of a PIA to set up, but we figured it out. That is a whole seperate thread.
+all above.


Cons-
Paying over MSRP.
No 2nd FOB yet...
Three tone inside (see door pic). I would have prefered two tone instead (black and the dark brown).
No spare, no donut- I purchased brand new replacement tire from dealer for $750 + tax and another $250 for matching tire from Costco to have a full size spare.
I am not comfy in the driving position. My lexus fit me like glove and I loved it. I am 6'2 and 180lbs.
No sunglass holder.
No cd player.