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He mentioned he wants to keep his stock HU, and I'm assuming he's not using an amp so doesn't want to underpower them (CS rated at 100W RMS and DSC rated at 50W RMS).
I'm using my stock HU with no amp. Didn't think about the underpower issue. Still produces deeper richer sound with stock HU as compared to the stock speakers. So are you saying that the DSC speakers would sound louder with the stock HU?
 

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I'm using my stock HU with no amp.So are you saying that the DSC speakers would sound louder with the stock HU?
I would assume so ddcha since it wont be power hungry as the CS unless a member with better knowledge could further elaborate before I make my choice.
 

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I would assume so ddcha since it wont be power hungry as the CS unless a member with better knowledge could further elaborate before I make my choice.
I spoke to a really knowledgeable rep at Crutchfield who clarified the difference between the two speakers. The CS654 is "last year's version" of the DSC654. Kicker decided to lower the max wattage specs for the CS because people assumed they needed an amp to power them. This however is not the case. The minimum wattage requirement is identical. He also told me that the sensitivity is identical at 90db so the loudness of the speakers using the same HU would be the same. All other specs are the same. The only difference is that if you did decide to get an amp down the road, the DS might not be able to handle the higher power. So that's what I've learned.
 

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I spoke to a really knowledgeable rep at Crutchfield who clarified the difference between the two speakers. The CS654 is "last year's version" of the DSC654. Kicker decided to lower the max wattage specs for the CS because people assumed they needed an amp to power them. This however is not the case. The minimum wattage requirement is identical. He also told me that the sensitivity is identical at 90db so the loudness of the speakers using the same HU would be the same. All other specs are the same. The only difference is that if you did decide to get an amp down the road, the DS might not be able to handle the higher power. So that's what I've learned.
Thank you for the clarification ddcha.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
I spoke to a really knowledgeable rep at Crutchfield who clarified the difference between the two speakers. The CS654 is "last year's version" of the DSC654. Kicker decided to lower the max wattage specs for the CS because people assumed they needed an amp to power them. This however is not the case. The minimum wattage requirement is identical. He also told me that the sensitivity is identical at 90db so the loudness of the speakers using the same HU would be the same. All other specs are the same. The only difference is that if you did decide to get an amp down the road, the DS might not be able to handle the higher power. So that's what I've learned.
I'm no audio expert by any means, but that sounds a bit odd to me. Sounds like he's saying that it was a marketing decision to decrease the max RMS rating by actually re-engineering it to handle less power but without changing anything else, which is just strange. They could simply state a lower RMS without actually changing the actual product if that is indeed the only difference between the DSC and CS, and then there wouldn't be an issue of the speaker distorting or getting damaged with higher RMS from an amp. In any case, powering speakers with an amp at the very least should allow for higher volumes of audio to be played without distortion (or damage to the speakers).
 

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I'm no audio expert by any means, but that sounds a bit odd to me. Sounds like he's saying that it was a marketing decision to decrease the max RMS rating by actually re-engineering it to handle less power but without changing anything else, which is just strange. They could simply state a lower RMS without actually changing the actual product if that is indeed the only difference between the DSC and CS, and then there wouldn't be an issue of the speaker distorting or getting damaged with higher RMS from an amp. In any case, powering speakers with an amp at the very least should allow for higher volumes of audio to be played without distortion (or damage to the speakers).
Im confused now, based on the specs h4Idol, which one hould I get for my stock HU? Lower or higher RMS?
 

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I'm no audio expert by any means, but that sounds a bit odd to me. Sounds like he's saying that it was a marketing decision to decrease the max RMS rating by actually re-engineering it to handle less power but without changing anything else, which is just strange. They could simply state a lower RMS without actually changing the actual product if that is indeed the only difference between the DSC and CS, and then there wouldn't be an issue of the speaker distorting or getting damaged with higher RMS from an amp. In any case, powering speakers with an amp at the very least should allow for higher volumes of audio to be played without distortion (or damage to the speakers).
He did make it sound like a marketing related change. I'm no expert in the area either, but I'm really happy with my CS65 with the stock HU. No underpower issues to report.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Im confused now, based on the specs h4Idol, which one hould I get for my stock HU? Lower or higher RMS?
Based on what ddcha heard from the crutchfield guy, if there is no change in volume between the two speakers, which both have the same 2W minimum RMS, then you would probably be better off with the CS65 as the price is the same but it has more RMS handling ability in case you add an amp in the future.

IHe did make it sound like a marketing related change. I'm no expert in the area either, but I'm really happy with my CS65 with the stock HU. No underpower issues to report.
I'm not surprised, I haven't seen many speakers with such a low minimum RMS (2W)! I'm thinking that maybe I should put these in my wife's car to replace some fairly cheap Pioneer 6.5" speakers I installed last month. :8)
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Updated to reflect what ddcha first reported (and which I can verify): that the screws that attach two layers of sheet metal don't need to be removed for these Kickers. PITA to put them back in but worth the peace of mind.
 

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No prob, glad to help! I wish I had some guidance too when doing it as I had no idea what I was getting myself into, but I was glad that it turned out to be fairly simple.



Yep, I think if you use the stock speaker as a mount, you could most likely fit a good number of 6x9 speakers as there is quite a bit of depth (I've read 4", which sounds about right to me) in the front doors (of course, you want to install them with the windows down to make sure it won't hit the window). I was able to fit a adapter bracket with a Metra plastic speaker baffle which is quite deep, so I would say most likely it would fit.

6x9 speakers in the front door along with some tweeters in the sail panel or dash would be a nice setup. The bass in my JL Audio components is pretty weak, but with the Kickers in the rear it "fills" out the sound due to the increased bass from the Kickers and it sounds great together, but better bass from the front doors would be nice for when I'm driving with the kids and the volume in the back is turned down.
Old thread, but is there a separate volume control for the rear speakers?
 

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Thanks for the great instructions, they really helped. I tried both ways mentioned in the thread, first taking everything loose from the rear on one side and on the other side I just went straight for the panel where the speaker is. I found it easier just to go straight to the front panel. I have one question though. When I did the left rear with the black and yellow wire I assumed Black must be the negative and wired it up that way and now rechecking your article you show the Black wire as the positive: So I'm just asking are you sure of the orientation?


Thanks again
 

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Discussion Starter #36
So I'm just asking are you sure of the orientation?
I can't guarantee it, but IIRC I got that from the wiring schematic for the Sienna from the Toyota tech website. I put down new audio wires so didn't use any of the stock wiring. Glad you could replace the speakers without taking off the trim from the back, I tried that and there was just no way for me that it was going to work.
 

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I'm going to switch those 2 wires this morning and see how is sounds. I have not modified car audio for some 20+ years now but I do remember back in the day if I had switched the + and - on a speaker that the system sounded ok but lost some bass response and now thinking about it I believe that happened to me now. The system sounded good but I did notice the bass was less. I'll let you know. And one more question if you have any input. Does the fact that the magnet on the cs65's actually touch the sheet metal cause any problems?
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Does the fact that the magnet on the cs65's actually touch the sheet metal cause any problems?
I don' think they actually touch as they are shallow enough to avoid direct contact.
 

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Okay I switched the wires and it definitely sounds better. Now I'm itching to add an amp and get a little more overall volume..I am pretty certain though
that when I went to reinstalled the speakers that the magnet pulled the speaker right out of my hand and stuck to the wall. I just hope it isn't a problem
 

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This is genius! Thanks so much for taking the time to post this. Crutchfield had convinced me that there was nothing I could do, and honestly, I'm not sure I'm up for this task, but it is quite remarkable.

Well done!
 
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